Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject: Following others
miss ruby wrote:
Thankyou for the reinstatement dear Ahmed,
No worries, I actually don't like dismissing others but they force me to do it
miss ruby wrote:
you are a sweet guy.
Thank you, I hope I won't let you down
miss ruby wrote:
I really do wish you well and believe in all honesty that Islam is a lie based on superstition and that your prophet was not an ideal role model for mankind.
Fine, on my side I believe that all prophets are ideal models for humanity, Mohammed is not my model alone, Mohammad for me is the same as any other prophet, I don't make any distinction between anyone of them, they all the exact same for me regarding following them and taking them models
Now, if Islam is a lie for you, then please dont think that I'm a liar who wants to follow lies and deceive others, think about it that I believe that Islam is right as you believe that it is a lie
miss ruby wrote:
You are still not convinced though. If only you thought differently and maybe see the points we are trying to convey.
Well, there is no reason for me to follow any human after reading this in the Quran, let me bore you a bit:
120: And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their way. Say: Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.
121: Those to whom We have sent the Book study it as it should be studied: They are the ones that believe therein: Those who reject faith therein,- the loss is their own. [2:120-121]
وَلَن تَرْضَى عَنكَ الْيَهُودُ وَلاَ النَّصَارَى حَتَّى تَتَّبِعَ مِلَّتَهُمْ قُلْ إِنَّ هُدَى اللّهِ هُوَ الْهُدَى وَلَئِنِ اتَّبَعْتَ أَهْوَاءهُم بَعْدَ الَّذِي جَاءكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ مَا لَكَ مِنَ اللّهِ مِن وَلِيٍّ وَلاَ نَصِيرٍ (120)
الَّذِينَ آتَيْنَاهُمُ الْكِتَابَ يَتْلُونَهُ حَقَّ تِلاَوَتِهِ أُوْلَئِكَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِهِ وَمن يَكْفُرْ بِهِ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْخَاسِرُونَ (121)
-> See: And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their way., the problem is darling that I really don't care about the Jews nor the Christians neither the flawed Muslims because I only care to please Allah, all I can say to all of you is this: Say: Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance., then I must follow the following warning from Allah:And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper, now I have to ask you:
Do you see me knowledgeable regarding the Quran or not?
Before I follow you to please you, can you give me 100% assurance that you will help me and guard me against the punishment of Allah if Allah exists?
-> If we move on to the next verse we should recognise an important piece of information : Those to whom We have sent the Book study it as it should be studied see, not all those who claim to believe in that book have studied it, because the condition is not only to be given the book then claim to be a believer in it, rather: يَتْلُونَهُ حَقَّ تِلاَوَتِهِ, Yatlonahu Haqq Telawatihi, i.e. study it as it should be studied: and when you do that then this what you should be called by Allah: They are the ones that believe therein, therefore not every one who claims to be a believer in the Quran is really a believer rather those who study the Quran the way it should be studied as 2:121 is telling us. On your side, you think that the Quran is a big lie, i.e. rejected it and you have total freewill to do so as, well you are not hurting me in anyway by doing so, indeed if that makes you happy then happy for you, but at the same time I'm sad for you because the same very book that I believe in it heart, mind and soul and I believe that I studied it the way it should be studied tells me : Those who reject faith therein,- the loss is their own., and I honestly and sincerely wish not that you will be a loser after this life in which I already wish you joy and happiness in it
Possibly you have a question, sort of: what makes you believe that the way I study the Quran is the way it should be studied?
The answer is simple, I know the language well, I spent years and years doing it, in many cases with many members in here I even spent more years studying the Quran than they lived all their lives so far, I also provide detailed evidences from the Quran to support any study that I made. Again people can reject my study because that study by me is not really for them, IT IS FOR ME and TO SAVE MYSELF OF BEING FOOLED THINKING THAT IM A BELIEVER BECAUSE I WAS GIVEN THE BOOK WHILE I NEVER STUDIED IT THE WAY IT SHOULD BE STUDIED, so please be my guest anyone to reject my study.
Lets look at another verse:
And thus have We revealed it, a true judgment in Arabic, and if you follow their low desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you shall not have against Allah any guardian or a protector. [The Quran ;13:37]
وَكَذَلِكَ أَنزَلْنَاهُ حُكْمًا عَرَبِيًّا وَلَئِنِ اتَّبَعْتَ أَهْوَاءهُم بَعْدَ مَا جَاءكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ مَا لَكَ مِنَ اللّهِ مِن وَلِيٍّ وَلاَ وَاقٍ (37)
-> See again, I'm really glad it is in the language that I studied for 12 years and did great in it: And thus have We revealed it, a true judgment in Arabic, sure the fact that it is a judgment in Arabic along with my expertise in the language will make my chances to study it the way it should be studied much better than others, dont you agree?, it is not guaranteed though, again sincerity to Allah and His cause is the most important element for a full success to understand the Quran in ANY language for that matter, however my study now is not to believe in it, because that is done with already years ago, my study is to refute those Kafiroon along with their pals from the confused Muslims who think they are believers and they never studied the Quran the way it should be studied. I will be stupid if I follow those people indeed after the knowledge that I truly believe was given to me in over 25 years of studying this book the way it should be studied: and if you follow their low desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you shall not have against Allah any guardian or a protector., can you or any confused Muslim guarantee me full security from Allah punishment if I follow them and they are wrong?, no one can, therefore it is my bloody responsibility to study the Quran the way it should be studied and just follow myself, I don't want to follow others neither I want others to follow me, but the others who fall my way will never escape any exposure if I get them red handed in a clear cut case of ignorance regarding the Arabic Quran.
And finally
116: And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from Allah's way; they follow but conjecture and they only lie.
117: Surely your Lord-- He best knows who goes astray from His way, and He best knows those who follow the right course. [The Quran ; 6-116-117]
وَإِن تُطِعْ أَكْثَرَ مَن فِي الأَرْضِ يُضِلُّوكَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللّهِ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلاَّ الظَّنَّ وَإِنْ هُمْ إِلاَّ يَخْرُصُونَ (116)
إِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ مَن يَضِلُّ عَن سَبِيلِهِ وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ (117)
-> See how clear the message is: And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from Allah's way; hmmm, sounds like the confused Muslims are included in most of those on earth or what do you think?, well the Quran is telling us that most of those on earth are only following conjectures: they follow but conjecture and they only lie, sounds like they are liars as well, that is why I chose NOT to follow most of those on earth, in fact I will only follow the following:
1) My choice to believe in Allah
2) My study to the Quran the way I believe it should be studied
165: Yet there are men who take (for worship) others besides Allah, as equal (with Allah): They love them as they should love Allah. But those of Faith are overflowing in their love for Allah. If only the unrighteous could see, behold, they would see the penalty: that to Allah belongs all power, and Allah will strongly enforce the penalty.
166: When those who were followed shall renounce those who followed (them), and they see the chastisement and their ties are cut asunder.
167: And those who followed shall say: Had there been for us a return, then we would renounce them as they have renounced us. Thus will Allah show them their deeds to be intense regret to them, and they shall not come forth from the fire. [The Quran ; 2-165-167]
وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَتَّخِذُ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ أَندَاداً يُحِبُّونَهُمْ كَحُبِّ اللّهِ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَشَدُّ حُبًّا لِّلّهِ وَلَوْ يَرَى الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ إِذْ يَرَوْنَ الْعَذَابَ أَنَّ الْقُوَّةَ لِلّهِ جَمِيعاً وَأَنَّ اللّهَ شَدِيدُ الْعَذَابِ (165)
إِذْ تَبَرَّأَ الَّذِينَ اتُّبِعُواْ مِنَ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُواْ وَرَأَوُاْ الْعَذَابَ وَتَقَطَّعَتْ بِهِمُ الأَسْبَابُ (166)
وَقَالَ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُواْ لَوْ أَنَّ لَنَا كَرَّةً فَنَتَبَرَّأَ مِنْهُمْ كَمَا تَبَرَّؤُواْ مِنَّا كَذَلِكَ يُرِيهِمُ اللّهُ أَعْمَالَهُمْ حَسَرَاتٍ عَلَيْهِمْ وَمَا هُم بِخَارِجِينَ مِنَ النَّارِ (167)
-> See how the humans choose to follow others in addition to following Allah: Yet there are men who take (for worship) others besides Allah, as equal (with Allah): this must include the flawed Muslims for sure because the Muslims already love Allah whom they love as they love Allah think of those flawed Muslims who shirk the love of Allah with the love of a mere prophet and a Warner called Mohammad, indeed the true believers love Allah in a way that can never be shared with any thing including any prophet:But those of Faith are overflowing in their love for Allah. all those Kafiroon and Mushrikoon must be penalized: If only the unrighteous could see, behold, they would see the penalty: that to Allah belongs all power, and Allah will strongly enforce the penalty. can you see this very strong statement أَنَّ الْقُوَّةَ لِلّهِ جَمِيعاً, that to Allah belongs all power, see, none can share it with Him, can you assure me a protection from the power of Allah if I follow you and you are wrong?, NO ONE CAN
-> See, Im only following myself, this indeed is very crucial in every man's life, you just can't blame others who were mistaken and you followed them, even your parents, this happens in this very life and you can't blame your parents if you get caught breaking the laws, Allah is telling us that it is not going to happen in the afterlife as well: When those who were followed shall renounce those who followed (them), and they see the chastisement and their ties are cut asunder., then And those who followed shall say: Had there been for us a return, then we would renounce them as they have renounced us. Thus will Allah show them their deeds to be intense regret to them, and they shall not come forth from the fire.
Those who followed will be so angry that they will seek double punishment to those whom they followed:
66- On the day when their faces shall be turned back into the fire, they shall say: O would that we had obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger!
67- And they shall say: O our Lord! surely we obeyed our leaders and our great men, so they led us astray from the path;
68- O our Lord! give them a double punishment and curse them with a great curse. [The Quran ; 33:66-68]
يَوْمَ تُقَلَّبُ وُجُوهُهُمْ فِي النَّارِ يَقُولُونَ يَا لَيْتَنَا أَطَعْنَا اللَّهَ وَأَطَعْنَا الرَّسُولَا (66)
وَقَالُوا رَبَّنَا إِنَّا أَطَعْنَا سَادَتَنَا وَكُبَرَاءنَا فَأَضَلُّونَا السَّبِيلَا (67)
رَبَّنَا آتِهِمْ ضِعْفَيْنِ مِنَ الْعَذَابِ وَالْعَنْهُمْ لَعْنًا كَبِيرًا (68)
-> See, when hell is brought in clear view to them: On the day when their faces shall be turned back into the fire, If I followed you then, I will say : they shall say: O would that we had obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger!
-> I have to blame those whom I followed: And they shall say: O our Lord! surely we obeyed our leaders and our great men, so they led us astray from the path;, I'm sure everyone thinks of the self as great, so If I follow you it means that I consider you a great human, right?
-> Now I have to curse you because I followed you and you just sent me astray (assuming Allah exists): O our Lord! give them a double punishment and curse them with a great curse., obviously I will curse you by seeking double the punishment for you, this clearly means that I will be in very desperate situation, and surely means that I have to pay my dues despite I have been following others and they were the wrong ones, but that wont work for me for sure, therefore I don't want to be one of those my dear miss ruby to be one day in a position of cursing you and seek double pounishment to inflicted on you, that is if I followed you and you are wrong. On the other hand if I stayed as who I'm and all what we read in the Quran is true then there will be no need for me to curse you further on that day, indeed I might even feel for you in that case If I was one of those who will prosper.
This future argument between the followers and those whom been followed becomes a bit interesting, it is sort of a chain, each people mislead the ones after them, we have sees how the last ones who entered hell will seek double the punishment for the first ones who entered hell, this means that the blame will keep going and going between adjacent generations and logically speaking the most to take the blame is the first one, hence the request of double the punishment for them, the reply however was BOTH WILL GET DOUBLE THE PUNISHMENT:
He will say: Enter into fire among the nations that have passed away before you from among jinn and men; whenever a nation shall enter, it shall curse its sister, until when they have all come up with one another into it; the last of them shall say with regard to the foremost of them: Our Lord! these led us astray therefore give them a double chastisement of the fire. He will say: Every one shall have double but you do not know. [The Quran ; 7:38]
قَالَ ادْخُلُواْ فِي أُمَمٍ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِكُم مِّن الْجِنِّ وَالإِنسِ فِي النَّارِ كُلَّمَا دَخَلَتْ أُمَّةٌ لَّعَنَتْ أُخْتَهَا حَتَّى إِذَا ادَّارَكُواْ فِيهَا جَمِيعًا قَالَتْ أُخْرَاهُمْ لأُولاَهُمْ رَبَّنَا هَؤُلاء أَضَلُّونَا فَآتِهِمْ عَذَابًا ضِعْفًا مِّنَ النَّارِ قَالَ لِكُلٍّ ضِعْفٌ وَلَكِن لاَّ تَعْلَمُونَ (38)
-> See, those who followed will blame those who have been followed: the last of them shall say with regard to the foremost of them:Our Lord! these led us astray therefore give them a double chastisement of the fire.
however both will get double the punishment and they just didn't know it: He will say: Every one shall have double but you do not know., therefore dear miss ruby, I don't want to be in that situation if I followed you then discovered after we die that Allah message was the one to follow exactly as He told us in the Quran, I just want it to stay that I wish you good in this life and in the after life, do you get my point darling?
miss ruby wrote:
I am not here to hate you dear Ahmed
Neither I'm really, in fact I have a lot of love for women
miss ruby wrote:
or to throw mud at Mohammed a "noble" man;
I believe that you do
miss ruby wrote:
but I TRUELY believe that Islam is a lie
Thank you, but I just can't follow you
miss ruby wrote:
and am not treating this forum as a pass time.
fine, soryy to accuse most women in here of doing as such, but look at some of them, it is like they make over 100 comments a day, that is fukin a lot
miss ruby wrote:
I have better things to do,
And me too indeed, I have loads of shit to do
miss ruby wrote:
but I feel I need to tell muslims like yourself that you do not need to be scared of a non-existent deity.
Would you like to play the probability game with me?
miss ruby wrote:
I know you have been warned of people like me and like [maybe Sona???]
Not really, I was warned against MOST OF THOSE ON EARTH: And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from Allah's way 6:116
miss ruby wrote:
(munafiq)
sona is surely a munafiq, but Im not sure about you, I believe you are a Kafir
miss ruby wrote:
or troublemakers
sona is surely a trouble maker and a shifty man who went astray, I'm not sure that you are a trouble maker but I do believe that you have gone astray from the path of your God
miss ruby wrote:
and hypocrites.
Hypocrite is munafiq
miss ruby wrote:
It is very difficult for you to even comprehend that Islam is false
I see it as it is difficult for you to even comprehend that Allah exists
miss ruby wrote:
and that your prophet was not worthy of respect.
Well, if he is not worth of respect for you, then you can only dismiss him and not follow him, but at the same time you have to respect those who are the true followers of him, they can be known by comparing their actions to the Quran because that is what was the main mission of the prophet which is to deliver the Quran, on the other hand when he explained other things, all those things were Quran related and there is no reason for me to accept any non Quran related hearsay about him from any human
miss ruby wrote:
I understand dear Ahmed.
In fact I really don't think that you do understand, on the other hand I do understand where you are coming from, you can only be a rejector but it is sad that you also choose to be one of those to send people astray by suggesting illusions on your head about a great prophet, that is why you can be considered a pertpetrator, because on my side I only deliver and you reject, or I can say that I try to tell you that you are wrong in your belief and show you an alternative, on the other hand you are telling me that I'm wrong in my belief without showing me an alternative other than just be a disbeliever then defame the prophet of that religion.
What makes you think that I should follow you dear miss ruby?
miss ruby wrote:
Maybe one day you will realise that you have been wrong...
I believe that the above statement equally applies to you
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